Cooking Cracked Corn For Mash

countryboy		#1 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2014 11:10:32 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		"Hi everybody, I've been making wine for the last 10 years or so and have been making brandy (out of the wine that wasn't up to my standards) for the last year. I have been using my father in laws PSII 8 gallon pot still. I recently bought the 15 gallon premium psII. I will be using a blichmann burner. I have been reading and researching for the last several months and think im ready for a corn likker run lol. Im looking to make a 12 gallon wash. My grain bill is 14 lbs of cracked corn, 5 lbs of malted barley, and 1 lbs of malted barley. The process I am planning on following is: heating up 6 gallons of water to 180F, stir in the cracked corn and steep for 90 mins, let cool to 153F and add the malted grain, keep temperature at 153F until starch is converted (3 hrs). Check by doing an iodine test. Once converted add to fermenter and add rest of water. Aerate vigorously. Once temp is below 90F pitch yeast. Airlock and let ferment and clear. Once clear, run it. I left out the initial hydrometer reading steps and ph and water hardness test, but I will do them as well. Can anybody give me any suggestions or pointers. And let me know if I am missing a step or anything?"

RandyMarshCT		#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:48:10 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 6/24/2013(UTC) Posts: 53		Sounds pretty good to me. I actually leave my mash tun overnight now and dump the mash into my fermenter the next morning. Do you have any backset? If not, you might want to acidify your strike water a bit with citric acid or lemon juice. With backset (25% of my water) I usually shoot for a ph of 4 or so. Anything 5.8 or lower is fine. The acidity gives you that traditional "sour" flavor component. I find I get the best flavor from a 4th or 5th generation backset with my bourbon recipe. Are you using 6-row or 2-row barley? It shouldn't matter much, but the 6-row has less sugars and more amylase enzymes. Having 25% of your grain bill as malted barley should be just fine though, regardless. The real bugger is straining the liquid off the grains after fermenting (unless you have indirect heat and can distill on the grains). I use a BIAB type brewing bag and scoop 1 gallon at a time into the bag and squeeze the crap out of it into a secondary fermenter (sanitized pillow case works fine too). When I'm done, I let it cold crash (or slowly settle) and rack into my boiler. Some people skip this step. I think letting it clear a bit makes a better flavored spirit with my gear... but you do lose some volume.

countryboy		#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:06:13 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		Thanks for the reply randy, I have a acid blend that I can adjust my Ph with. I've considered a straining bag to ferment with as well. I had a typo in my grain bill of my first post. It should read: 14lbs cracked corn 5lbs malted rye 1lbs of malted barley I wasn't going to use any backset in this recipe but definitely will try another run and keep a generational run going. I had another question about pre-mashing as well. I was thinking about adding some malted barley to the cracked corn as I heat it up so it doesn't become a big glob. Any suggestions?

RandyMarshCT		#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:29:47 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 6/24/2013(UTC) Posts: 53		Originally Posted by: countryboy I was thinking about adding some malted barley to the cracked corn as I heat it up so it doesn't become a big glob. Any suggestions? You'll definitely want to do this. I keep about a half a pound of crushed 6-row in a bowl next to me when I'm mashing corn (I buy my 6-Row by the 50 lb bag). I usually do two 10-gallon cooler mash tuns at the same time (I know, I need to upgrade) and the half pound is more than plenty for both. Two or three handfuls make a big difference. I add as I'm heating up the corn, and again later sometimes as it's cooling to my malt temp if it seems thick. Your malted barley (if it's 2-row) should be around 140L, so that can reliably convert 4.6 lbs of grain (30/lb). The Rye malt is 105*L (breiss is, anyway), so that's good to convert another 17.5 lbs. You're surely all set for amylase enzymes.

countryboy		#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:08:24 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		Thanks so much for the info. I appreciate your response and suggestions. Ill post the details of my run and the outcome when I'm all set up.

countryboy		#6 Posted : Thursday, April 24, 2014 2:31:00 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		Well I mashed in on my first all grain wash. Overall I think it was a success lol. Here is my process, if anybody has any suggestions or pointers for the next run, please post. I added 8 gallons of water to my stock pot and heated to 100F. Added 14 lbs of cracked corn, stirring occasionally. Brought temperature up to 180F (I did add about 3/4 of a pound of malted barley to the wash between 140-160F to help reduce the thickness of the wash. It did help a lot). I kept the temperature at 180F for 90 min. A crap load of stirring to prevent scorching. I killed the heat and left the wash to cool to 150F. This was going way slow so I added two more gallons of water to help cool the wash faster. When the temp hit 153F, I turned the heat on super low and added 5 lbs of malted rye and 1 lbs of malted barley. I kept the temp at 148-153F for three hours. The wash looked a little bit think and cloudy still so I killed the heat, stirred real well and added the other 3/4 lbs of malted barley I had on hand. I left the lid off and let the wash cool to 134F. Tested for starch conversion using iodine and it passed. I then racked the mash into my primary fermentor to let cool to below 90F before I pitch my yeast. I couldn't stand it so I took a hydrometer reading at 100F and was super surprised to see a 1.065 (after temperature correction). That means I got great conversion and hit the proper mash temps. Overall process took about 10 hours. I think it was a success. But the real test will be what it tastes like after distillation. I decided to wait till morning to pitch yeast and I was thinking about adding two more gallons of water to thin it out a bit and maybe trap some more grain flavor.

RandyMarshCT		#7 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 12:04:51 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 6/24/2013(UTC) Posts: 53		Sounds like an excellent start! Kudos on the conversion, that is great! It looks like you got over 80% mash efficiency. This is exceptional for your first all-grain. You can add some more water if you'd like, but 1.065 is exactly what I shoot for with my bourbon recipe for an Og. What type of yeast are you using? I use the US-05 for corn whiskey and it works pretty well.

countryboy		#8 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 12:56:06 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		I pitched half a packet of Still Spirits Distiller's whiskey Yeast directly into the wash and started the other half of the packet in a half a cup of wash and a tablespoon of sugar. I'm going to let the started yeast double in size and then pitch. But I am not sure that I like the yeast. Its been over an hour and no movement, bubbles, or anything. I ll keep watching it and if nothing after several hours I'll switch to bakers yeast.

countryboy		#9 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 1:01:49 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		Thanks for the conversion math. How did you come up with 80%? I contribute a lot of the conversion to me milling my own grain. I got the barley crusher grain mill and it does a really good job. I think that the consistency and correct "crack" if you will, lends to better conversion as much as time does.

John Barleycorn		#10 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 1:38:41 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 804 Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)		" countryboy: For a first AG mash, it sounds like you had a great success! Congratulations! In reading this thread I can see that you did a great job with your research ... and it certainly paid off. Good show! Randy: What kind of absorption do"

heeler		#11 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 1:39:02 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered, Moderator Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,666 Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 13 post(s)		Howdy, I'm curious, does that yeast call for rehydration?? I think most of those type yeasts are direct deposit if you will. Give er some time before you give up on it though, the one in the cup might kill itself but dont know why the one you added wont go. You should see activity in 3-4 hours and MAYBE sooner but dont give up yet. Now if you just cant wait rehydrate your other yeast choice or just pour on top and letter go. Sooner or later one of them will get to eatin the sugar.

John Barleycorn		#12 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 1:43:13 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 804 Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)		The spec sheet calls for rehydration ... in the past I've both sprinkled it on top and rehydrated ... didn't notice any difference. But that was for session ales, so the gravity was well below 1.065. Edit: whoops ... belay that ... I was thinking S-05 ... sorry.

heeler		#13 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 2:03:43 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered, Moderator Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,666 Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 13 post(s)		"no worries, I was thinkin that was turbo and we know you shouldn't rehydrate a turbo yeast. and Countryboy...did it start workin yet and did the cup you rehydrated get to work yet?"

countryboy		#14 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 4:49:34 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		Thanks for the advice and waiting. You guys were right. Yes, both of them started working. They both just had a really slow take off. I added the started to the rest of the wash and its working now and looking good. There is a good head crust developing so I am going to lock her down and let it work its magic. It took about 3 hours to notice good activity, and around 4 to see a head crust.

countryboy		#15 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 4:54:39 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		The yeast package did not say anything about rehydration. Basically a dump on top. It is not a turbo yeast. Once I make a run I will post how I make out and what the taste is and if I like the yeast. Thanks for all the information and replies. I did most my research on the forums here. Great information and members. Thanks everybody.

RandyMarshCT		#16 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 7:45:18 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 6/24/2013(UTC) Posts: 53		Originally Posted by: countryboy Thanks for the conversion math. How did you come up with 80%? I use this calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/ ... but I assumed a total volume of 10 gallons, and I'm sure you were probably under that after the corn boil. JB - I lose about 20% of my strike water volume by the time I squeeze off the grains, clear, and rack. I squeeze off the grains at 1 week into a secondary and settle for an additional week before I cold crash (24 to 48 hours) and rack. I know this isn't necessary, but the beer brewer in me demands it. I like to run as clear a wash as possible.

John Barleycorn		#17 Posted : Friday, April 25, 2014 8:14:21 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 804 Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)		"I've never used corn. Just barley and rice ... which are very small kernels compared to corn. From tun to kettle I lose very close to 1/2 quart per pound of barley (sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less). It's hard to figure with the rice since I always soak it then steam it ... so the numbers aren't very meaningful & never weighed the steamed rice. What does that 20% come out to in terms of volume lost/lb grain? ... and do you soak it prior to the mash?"

RandyMarshCT		#18 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 1:20:45 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 6/24/2013(UTC) Posts: 53		Well, I use 20.5 lbs of grain (12# corn, 4# 6-row, 3# wheat malt, 1.5# maris otter) per 10-gallon mash tun + ~8 gallons water, and yield 6 gallons of clear wash to the boiler per tun (I do 2 at a time). So I suppose it's about .39 quarts per pound. This is based off of my recipe using flaked maize. I don't use flaked any more since it's super expensive, but I'm not certain of volume with the cracked corn I use because I boil the corn for 90 minutes in 4 gallons of water, cool it, and add it to the tun. Then I top to 8.5 gallons and mash in the malts. I assume it's probably pretty close. For the record, I really squeeze the hell out of my grains. I don't soak, but I grind the corn twice through my barley crusher and add it to the water before I start to heat it up. From here on out I'll be steam cooking the corn because I befriended a local fellow distiller who made an awesome steam cooker and he told me I can use it any time I want.

countryboy		#19 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 6:05:37 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/19/2013(UTC) Posts: 22		Checked the progress of my wash today. It slowed way down and figured id give it a look. My hydrometer read 0.996. That's done enough for me so I filtered out all the grains and squeezed them really well. Took forever. I then filtered wash again. It was still a little cloudy so Im going to lock it back up and let it clear for 24 hrs and she how she looks. Does anybody have any advice or experience with letting their wash clear really well? Or can you run a right after fermentation?

RandyMarshCT		#20 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 7:34:07 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Reputation: Groups: Registered Joined: 6/24/2013(UTC) Posts: 53		You can run it right away, that's what many people do. I don't, but people who have experimented with cloudy/clear corn washes report little differences other than a higher charge volume without the clearing. If you have a refrigerator that your fermenter will fit in, that is the best way to clear it. Refrigerate for 24/48 hours and it clears right up. I'm paranoid about scorching because I have an internal heating element, but I've never tried to run a completely cloudy wash. Maybe I'm just doing a rain dance with the clearing. Just my $0.02.

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